PPP091: Getting Your Mind and Body Fit For Life with Andrew May

 

Speaker 1

0:00:02 - 0:02:00

Hello and welcome to the potential psychology podcast. I'm your host, Ellen Jackson. And it's my mission to share the science of human behaviour in a practical fund and inspiring way. In each podcast episode, I interview an expert from the Fields Psychology, wellbeing, leadership, parenting. Well, high performance. I pick their brain to uncover what they know about living. Well, what tips do they have for you and I on? I quizzed him about how they applied their expertise in their own life. Join me as we discover simple science backed ways toe live, learn, flourish and fulfil your potential. Hello and happy New Year. Welcome to 2021 the potential psychology podcasts. Fourth year on air. Actually, that's a little misleading us. We'll celebrate a third birthday in March, but technically, it's the fourth year that we've thie airwaves as we started in 2018, so, you know, for calendar years. But anyway, welcome back. It's great to have you here. I hope you're as ready as anyone convey for what 2021 might bring. I have to say that the state of the world as it is right now with US politics and co Vered wreaking havoc globally and border closures locally has distracted me from my usual new Year planning and gold setting. I generally spend the first few days off the year by the beach visualising what the you might hold and setting some. I guess you might call them intentions, if not specific goals. But this year, like many people, our holiday plans were disrupted by the closure off the Victorian border on Years day and a mad dash home on I don't Know about You. But the constant flux off the past 10 months or so has left me sort of struggling to plan pass thie end off the week. I'm just not feeling it even now, and we're well into January.

Speaker 1

0:02:00 - 0:03:52

But rather than worrying too much about this or railing against it or fighting against that, I'm focusing on what I can control. And right now that's bringing you brand new episodes off the show and to kick off a new year. Moore's air kicking off a fun little intro to each episode that I'm calling three things. So each episode I will share three things that helping me to fulfil my potential, and I'd love to hear about your three things, too. So the three things are something I'm reading, something I've learned and something I'm doing to grow so myself out of my comfort zone. Take that step towards fulfilling my potential, so I'm going to tell you about my three things. And then I'd love you to tell me about yours, and I'll tell you how to do that in a moment. So Number one for May is something I'm reading and it's originals. How Non Conformists Moved the World by Adam Grant, which was published a few years ago. Now 2016, I think, and I'm just getting around to reading it. In fact, I'm actually listening to it on Audible while I'm walking the dogs I'm fighting. That's the most efficient way for me to read nonfiction at the moment on, If you don't know Adam Grant, he's an American organisational psychologist who also hosts a great podcast called Work Life. He also does a lot of writing. He's a smart guy, great storyteller, and in originals he's exploring the science off, being original, so choosing to champion novel ideas and values that go against the grain or battle conformity or buck outdated traditions with a bigger goal of improving the world. And it's filled with case studies and storeys and quotes. And while it's all based in science, and he does explain and share the science, too, but also very readable or, in my case, listenable.

Speaker 1

0:03:52 - 0:05:46

So I definitely recommend it if you're interested in creativity or innovation or doing things differently, or just how people who are original, think and operate. So that's originals. By Adam Grant. That's what I'm reading or listening. Teo Number two is something I've learned, and it's always hard to pick just one thing that I've learned. But one thing that stands out, I actually learned from listening to originals, and that's the role that your birth order may play in your behaviour and success in different fields. So whether you're the firstborn of Second Mourner, subsequent born and by your what, I don't mean yours personally but people in general across the population. So it turns out, from research into birth order effects that first born Children that's May may be more likely to be ambitious in terms of advancing their education and career because they're keen to impress the adults in their life while siblings further down the birth order are more likely to be risk takers and succeed and feels like comedy or team sports because they've grown up trying to compete with their older siblings or perhaps entertain them or make them laugh or just have their voices heard, Aunt. Of course, there is a lot more to it than that. That's a very simplified version of it, and we're talking about humans and they are complex and the research is still a little speculative. But I found it really interesting because I've often debated the role of birth order in personality formation with my dad, because that's the kind of weird thing that we discussed. And Dad's very much off the view being a second born that birth order does by a role in who you become. But traditionally personally research, which I grew up with career wise just didn't support this idea.

Speaker 1

0:05:47 - 0:07:35

But this new research that Adam Grant talks about in originals comes from evolutionary psychology, which again is a field that's a little controversial but all very fascinating. And it's certainly something else for my dad and I to discuss, so that's my second thing. My third thing in my three things is something I'm doing to challenge myself, and my dad gets against in this one, too, because I'm challenging myself to relax. Which might sound weird. But as a very task oriented person who grew up surrounded by very task oriented people, winding down and relaxing doesn't come easily to May. In fact, growing up Dad would tell my sister and I that it was important to learn to relax like it's a skill because for us at least, and maybe for you, too, there's always something else to do, isn't there? And when you have a lifetime habit off doing, it's hard to stop. So rather than charging around like a blue arsed fly and cleaning the house and catching up on task and just doing stuff during my holiday at home that should have been spent by the beach in New South Wales, I got up late and I've been doing a jigsaw. I'm continuing to do a jigsaw picks. They do take a long time. I've been giving myself permission to just take things slowly and during the holiday mode that was really doing not much at all, and I'm not brilliant at it and even while on holiday and still is. I try to implement this now that I'm back at work, find myself still mentally tallying up my achievements at the end of the day. So during the holidays was packing up the Christmas decorations, were mowing the lawn or tidying my email inbox, always making sure that I feel productive. But I certainly did do a good job off slowing the pace.

Speaker 1

0:07:36 - 0:09:25

And I found that ideas and inspiration that completely eluded me in the weeks prior to Christmas when I was back chat have returned, and that certainly feels like growth ofthe sort. So that's my third thing, is just pushing myself to relax. So they might three things for this episode that we know what your three things are, something you're reading or watching or listening to something that you've learned and something that you're doing to challenge yourself to fulfil your potential so composite on social media and tag it p p three things. That's the digit three. Or email me at Ellen Jackson at potential dot com dot au you or send a message through our website at potential dot com data. You will use any of the other ways in which we connect and communicate in thiss digital age. I'm really looking forward to seeing and hearing and perhaps sharing at your three things. But now it's time to turn to this week's episode. While we're talking about resting and recharging and learning and growing and getting our bodies and brains fit for whatever 2021 brings, it is time to introduce my guest because we're talking about all of those things and more. It's a really fun, positive and informative way to start the year, so lets it go. I am thrilled tohave. Andrew May with me today. Andrew is a performance strategist and leadership coach. He's a best selling author. He's an in demand speaker, a regular on ABC News breakfast. He's also the CEO and founder ofthe strive stronger dot com, a podcast host himself at dead and someone that I've actually known for a very long time. Welcome, Andrew. It's great to have you on the show.

Speaker 2

0:09:25 - 0:09:41

It's lovely to see you. Lovely to talk to you. A cz Well, we were also co inhabited in office face and the reviews go back up north ride. So we do go back a long time. We've been talking about doing this podcast for a while, and it's excited we've got We've got the opportunity now to chat.

Speaker 1

0:09:41 - 0:09:48

Yes, yes, and I am excited. And yes, that wasn't that a very long time ago. I think that was the early two thousand's. Possibly

Speaker 2

0:09:48 - 0:09:54

stop. It must be four or five years ago when we were starting our careers. Helen. It

Speaker 1

0:09:54 - 0:10:28

was a long time ago, but lovely tohave on opportunity to reconnect and talking issues that has been a little while coming. As we set this up, best things do transpire. Eventually, we are going to talk a bit today about getting your body and your brain fit for work and fit for life. You have given a little bio there, but can you just tell our listeners a bit about your credentials and your background in performance in particular because it spreads across a number of different domains over some period of time? Yeah,

Speaker 2

0:10:28 - 0:12:09

yeah. Look, I had breakfast this morning with Nigel Marsh. I don't know if you've had Nigel on this podcast, but we offer a fat 40 and five and 50 fired up. And there's another effort. Liberation and now I can't remember. And he said So I'm really fascinated. Just read a copy off the book, magically sent to tell me about the chronology of it. So I think Nigel must have been preparing for a fracture today. So I built a storey Ellen, like so many performers, so many people Teo built on your top hits or you're remember back when we had cassette tapes when we were kids and I said to my Children, they go, Why didn't you just have Spotify like Jodi? Your room You're grounded have Spotify that your little turds because it wasn't around but my a side of my top hits where I was good at sports school. I won multiple state championships, had a scholarship to be a coach of the in the Tasmanian Institute of Sports Drug just moved there under my coat. John win as a runner and a coach and had always been successful in sports, So I called that the movement the body stuff in elite sport alert. It's about recovery. You train hard, recover harder on. Then I moved back to Sydney, started working with the New South Wales cricket team, the Sydney Swans in New South Wales. Sidney Swift, New South Wales. Netball team. Female Sydney Kings which is not a Sydney Flames and then the penultimate job I got in sports conditioning was travelling the world with the Australian Cricket San and 0506 So I've learned all the physical stuff physiology a little the recovery staff on. Then I had executive saying Hey, seen you do this stuff right? A conference. Can you come and talk to us? Because there's some parallels in sport about being organiz and focusing in the zone and all that started.

Speaker 2

0:12:09 - 0:13:45

I'll think there's some stuff I can transfer to sport build a few businesses in amongst that so learned about from activity and then actually realised I was really missing something. Ellen and I part blame you and I Patch Lane Tim Sharp on my part. Blame if your other psychologists who I learned a lot from along the way that in sport we sports tell we don't sports coach because when you've got a team of male or female athletes, think it enough on. So go do this. Do that, do that great on the coach Nova teller. So I went back indeed coaching psychology under Tony Grant. God rest his soul and it's in the university on. Then learn to pull it all together. So the storey was good. Ellen, you know, I've worked with the Australian cricket team with the Sydney Swans. I built and sold a business toe back or I was speaking on stages around the world. I was the performance guy behind some CEOs and executives, and it was a beautiful storey. It was married in a big house of water views and my wife was newsreader. So we did a great storey to young kids. Went through a marriage break now and I didn't have a script for that. I didn't have a scheme are too. I couldn't realtor the schemer. I was the performance guy. How do I look? Att. Alan and other friends and say, Hey, my marriage hasn't worked on DH. The terms we give on that marriage failure marriage breakdown. You've had a few different iterations of the business. I've had other relationships and I'm a loser because I couldn't get it together. But I build my storey so strongly on being the performance guy on physiology, recovery, productivity in psychology that when it didn't work was like, doesn't compute warning. Warning.

Speaker 2

0:13:45 - 0:14:49

I was stuck in my thinking and I was so wrong, Alan, thinking that if I saw coaching clients, athletes, friends, family and said, Hey, I'm not okay that they judge me as being weak. So I haven't floundered 18 months to two years functioning. Depressed, I would say, in hindsight, don't still get up on stage, is still did a bit of media, but I'd go home, Teo an apartment. So I have no house and he had the kids half the time. So it was no house, no kids, no dogs, no backyard, no purpose, no fun. And it took just a couple of little things, but I'd sent her one of my nights. One of my best mate marry. I've known since I was a kid. I said something to him. He said, No. You okay? Yeah. And he said, I think you should go take some medicine. It's okay to go get some support on. I worked with a wonderful psychologist on I've written about this in my book as well and chill MK, nor helped me just totally get out of my limiting believes that because I couldn't keep a marriage together. I wasn't a failure. So that was the background

Speaker 1

0:14:49 - 0:15:05

Eso a big challenged your identity, a dissonance there between who you built yourself up to be in your mind or a perception of who you ought to bay. Perhaps. And then how you were feeling inside as a result of these events

Speaker 2

0:15:05 - 0:16:55

were going there. Really? Give me at least let's go. There was a cognitive dissonance. Yes, in bold 56 point on DH Hindsight reflections a wonderful thing at the time. You don't know because you're in pain and you're hurting. And I've never had adversity which will come back to, And I didn't have scar tissue which will come backto on DH. My role identity was total. It was inextricably linked to my self identity. I couldn't separate the two Jill, help me understand the B side. So the outside was the sports guy. And look on top of that. I'd top take Jesse in modern history and build a few businesses. Life had always been good with that annoying a hole that people are e I wouldn't try from motor, but I like I worked bloody hard. Its success when people say, you know, overnight success it takes 20 to 30 years, but I didn't have a B side. And then when I got the Bayside, which is the hits that people haven't heard or the non top heads, I just didn't know how to put it together. But you know what? I now realise Alan as a coach, as to speak as a podcast, as a dad, as a lover, as a family member, as a friend, as a community member of the list goes on, people connect with you're so much more when you've got a Bayside. So my limiting storey, the schemer that was driving my success, that then led me to fall down and took a fair bit of work to pick myself up is that life is gonna be great. Everything's also and build a storey. The narrative on that And then when that narrative changes No, this is not. The Storey is a bit like there's something about Mary notes, not seven minute Babs. It's not six minutes, seven minutes, Abs. I was that guy, not laughing. My thinking was so conditioned that this is it's about success,

Speaker 1

0:16:55 - 0:17:49

and this is something and you and you've mentioned it as well that you really introduce. I love that idea of thie a side and the B side. You know this idea that we can have two sides to our storeys and that, Okay. And we need to acknowledge and share that B side in order to be authentic. And that's exactly what you do when you open your book, which you mentioned, which is called Match Fits the Complete Manual to get your body and brain fit for work and fit for life. It really is a manual, isn't it? I was so taken with the depth off and I could see you catching psychology, you know, both being in a long us. Is that the word of the coaching psychology programme at the University of Sydney? I could really see the depth of the science in there and you're covering off all of these components which will come to but you do open with this storey Justus you've described it was that hard to d'oh

Speaker 2

0:17:50 - 0:19:33

interesting question it felt right to do. I don't know whether it's hard. It was risky on by co author Dr Tom Buckley and I give credit a lot of the science as well. Work time now for 15 years in five different business generations and tell me, is head of our research institute in stride? Stronger? But he's also associate professor at Sydney Uni. So he's got some serious horsepower. That boy on DH waded foot to switch 10 years ago, and there was, I think we look back on books you've written shall be looked back at podcast We do in 10 years and you hear the change and the evolution is the same with your writing on. I don't think anyone should ever say I'm embarrassed about the book out, right, Because that's the book. You're right. At that time, I do look at some of the storeys I wrote 10 years ago. It was very kitsch. Cappuccino cowboys, Road runner, you know, chill kill thrills, Phil. It needed a bit more rigour, I think, to go to that next level of consulting outside of keynotes to run large scale culture change in behaviour programmes. Cassio's don't really want to talk about cappuccino cowboys, and Dr Reid said, so I wanted to add the rigour but not lose people. But I also wanted to be a true reflection off May and other people is well, so I thought, rather than riding the storey Hey, everything's also Mogo with the east side be site. And Ellen, I can't tell you. I get I get a bit tingly when I think of this. Not because of the garden. An amazing thing. No, I was just just blotting authentically. But I can't tell you how many conversations I've had predominantly with men, but someone full ones with women as well. Who've said thank you. You get me? No. Like I read a book and I thought, Yeah, I've got to do something.

Speaker 2

0:19:33 - 0:20:53

I I now understand that I'm not alone because if you are the so called performance guy and you were feeling so shitty for So Mom Yeah. I got to go do something to pull myself out. And then analogy. I had a client say we would learn so much from our clients. Ellen, sometimes we we shouldn't have an exchange of money. It should be This exchange of ideas I'm and Christian, a client from BancWest. A number of years ago gave me a beautiful analogy around mental health and especially self talk. They said Andrew. I feel like I'm in a car park in a big building and I'm driving around the one and be too, and I can see the off ramp and my peripheral vision is pulling me towards their. But subconsciously I just be left and I go back to be one, and I go up to New Bay, too. And that's exactly what I wa sai on a Christian I was driving around. They wanted they too have got a decree in exercise physiology on the coaching psychology going on. I coached top 28 Axios. That's what I was telling myself, How come you can't sort out your own shit? Well, they're going to get out of your own way and stop pretending you know everything and actually acknowledge. And I say this from then, especially in Australia, it's okay to not always be okay. And that was one of the power quotes that came out of this and in fact putting your hand up and saying, Hey, I'm not okay. Is the start of when you could put everything back together

Speaker 1

0:20:53 - 0:21:52

on that when you mentioned that the book is about you, but also about others, and that was exactly what struck me as that was rolling. It was This has to be powerful to all of those or and again. I only thought any minutes got a sort of the sports and performance for Labour to it that I think would have appeal to the Australian male demographic at that kind of CEO and senior executive and hype moments level. But also, I don't you know, we're not immune to that. Especially now I think you know the influence ofthe social media and some others have suggested that there's really a pressure toe only show that a side and it never reveal that b side, which, you know, I know it's the psychologist isn't gonna help anyone but to be able to share your vulnerability, to share your Storey, to be able to connect with people at that level, and told them that it's okay to not bay. Okay, it's a wonderful thing. It's a powerful thing that you've been able to do so kudos for that.

Speaker 2

0:21:52 - 0:23:27

Thank you. Three immediate things. So that one is being vulnerable. It's gonna be vulnerable. Be vulnerable. Don't orchestrate it. Until I was really conscious of not orchestrating it. Love Renee Brown. I've got all of her books, and I know you do without even asking you. But I see a lot of people get up on stage now and say stuff like I'm about to be vulnerable with you. It's like they've read the book and now I'm going to be authentic and I'm going to lean in quite Cheryl Sandberg and we're going to build Connexion Trust. Don't tell anyone you're about to be vulnerable, be vulnerable if it's authentic. Yeah, and really mean it and show people some of that authenticity and vulnerability. And if it's really you'll connect with people not because it's a marketing thing, it's because it's really and I meant it to be authentic. The second one, Dr Tom was really concerned, and we had a conversation about me. I'm really worried about this. We didn't get a split testing had some people read a different groups are some different questions. To see that response and overwhelming, they came back and said that we love it, and some of his colleagues in academia from around the world have come back, and I love the change. So it's actually done. Toms, heading a little bit in an academic world and you get the strike because academics do a wonderful job, but they're trained to look at problems in other people's research. We talk about broaden and bill theory. We've got a pension broaden and built there in an interview like this. But I think also when you look at problems you brought in and build more problems. You foot the model backwards, right? What we've raised s so the first thing was gonna be authentic. Realistically, the second one, Dr Tom, was quite concerned about it.

Speaker 2

0:23:27 - 0:23:38

We address that looked a different groups. We've had feedback that it was the right thing. And three, we've sold more than 75,000 coffees. So more cells that could have possibly ever dreamt on Sarah. It's hit a nerve.

Speaker 1

0:23:38 - 0:24:29

Absolutely. And I look, I don't doubt that at all that I think it is probably the combination off that storytelling. And you've include a lot of storytelling in here in case studies, in your own storeys, about your own experiences, but also the experiences of others and then combined that with a model that will step through in a moment and this scientific rigour that really explains. I think in a beautiful way and easy to understand and engaging way when we mention academia. I think one of the challenges of academia is that there's a big gap between the work that gets done and then how it gets communicated on their into every day life. And I think there's a lot of other people who feel that need in terms of, you know, we want to know what to do. But then it doesn't have the academic rigour behind it. You know, I think you've done a lovely job in this U N Tom of breaching that gap and being able to bring that to life for people.

Speaker 2

0:24:30 - 0:24:35

I'll make sure told listens to this because I want him to get the code ox as well. Must think that comes in the back doing the research?

Speaker 1

0:24:35 - 0:24:37

No, not at all, not at all.

Speaker 2

0:24:37 - 0:25:21

There was over 500 peer review journals to go into this and because a lot of work and I made it more work because you have your darlings. But I've gotto put that storey and when you don't understand everyone and working with a good editor is wonderful. So Julian Welch as well. Thank you, but it's resonated which has been really nice. And for awhile I wouldn't have told you you have had this money sales. But I say that because it's not Mei alone. Pump up my tyres. It's been a real team effort, and it really helped launch a new business when I came out of KPMG, has a partner and thought, How did I launch a new business and also make meaning off my last five years? Pencil away six months and write a book? A lot of work, but the reflection on it wass very, very powerful,

Speaker 1

0:25:22 - 0:25:35

I don't know, but I find that writing really clarifies my thinking, actually having to pull things together into away that's easily communicable toe others just helps me to kind of clear that up in my own mind as well.

Speaker 2

0:25:35 - 0:26:39

I think everybody underscore Everybody should right now if anyone's listening to this and there are small business owner or they work in business and mainly in teams, if you do not right, you're doing yourself a disservice because you are not making meaning off your thoughts. You become the coach. So working out what's happening with storytelling gratitude and appreciation. We often don't realise until you put it down. But also, if you are going to be teaching and coaching and counselling and what else did I miss? Podcasting and TV ing and everything else I find writing Help me really clarify. And then sometimes you get in a situation. You quote something and playing this alternative come from Well, that sounded okay. E wrote that because you've got to Distil. But you're right. And I find if you just talk, you can be quite for votes is a beautiful letter or the storey of a letter from Mark Twain to one of his colleagues was eight pages long on the other bottom we put PS. I'm sorry. This is so for those. I didn't have time to make it. Suspect writing helps you make your message sent.

Speaker 1

0:26:39 - 0:27:17

Yeah, I think that's an excellent tip there for anybody listening about the power off writing just to get your thoughts in order before you put it out there into the world and whatever format. So and we've talked up the book, Can we just talk? And obviously that intro there, which is your storey and how it came to Bay. Can you just talk us through this sort of three main elements to it and then some steps and it is around getting yourself into the best physical, psychological emotional states to perform in whatever domain you are endeavouring to perform in, isn't it?

Speaker 2

0:27:18 - 0:28:55

It is, It is. And before I go through the three different faces just a little bit of back storey. We're not in sport elite sport. For 15 plus years, we look at three things. For a good male or female sports person, there's the craft. If you're going to go and play tennis, be good. It hitting a ball with a racket. If you can't do that, don't choose tennis. If you dive in the pool and you think don't go and try out for the Australian Dolphins swimming team. So you've got your craft first ride, and that is the sport, Then 20. So years ago, a few of my mentors and I came into sport. People like Dave missing. It was really a pioneer in Australian sports conditioning. John Quinn was another one. Coach is out of the physical side, so then you get the physical skills and that's where we really looked the recovery that skills training. So, you know, learning how to regulate heart rate, learning how to sleep properly in sport, learning how to shift your circadian rhythm before Ah rugby team and the Super 15. I think it is now. It keeps going up and then changing. But if you're playing in South Africa, it's a rule impulse on your circadian rhythm if you don't make that shift. So we teach all these skills, right? So we've got the craft and we've got the physical side and what's only coming in. And for someone like you, Ellen, you must be just scratching your head and go. How can they only just now start to talk about mental skills training? Well, I think athletes thie like the Michael Jordans, the Peles, the Don Bradman's. They were doing mental skills training. They just didn't tell everyone or they didn't call it that. It was self talk. It was reflection. It was gold setting. It was Michael Javaid of one of the world's leading sports psychologist, talks about front loading your cognitive skills.

Speaker 2

0:28:55 - 0:30:19

So is a young female cricketer. You get out there now in the in the World Cup, which happened early this year where we won against India. There's 100,000 people. How do you handle that if you haven't done any training? So they're the three things we look at, right? There's your craft, there's the physical side and there's the mental side. The match fit is read the manuscript today. Go to your craft. But we're going to give you skills around the physical side and the psychological, the mental side to navigate work in life. And I know you believe passionately about this as much as I do. Ah, lot of these skills. We should be taught as a young kid. I remember some things at school that don't help me a lot in life. I know Alan Jackson. That volume equals four thirds pi r cubed there. Next time I'm in, Ballarat will meet in the main street, take maybe a favourite coffee shop and say, Hey, Andrew, there's a tank. Well, Ellen, what's the radius? I think it's about 1.6 metres. I'll work out the volume that effect him equals four thirds pi r cubed. But I didn't have the cognitive skills frontloaded how to pick myself up, but I've been playing a side all my life and I got to the B side and I didn't know howto wind the case that up. So I think it's paramount that we learn these skills throughout life. If you haven't learned the multi doesn't matter. Can't change that now. Now that's a great thing. I love with your pod cars because when I listened to it alone skills,

Speaker 1

0:30:19 - 0:30:19

yes,

Speaker 2

0:30:20 - 0:30:30

that's what I think of that with psychology. And we used to go. I've got to go through the psychologist now. It's like also must receive a psychologist it skills training here. Got to get a massage, get my nails done. And I'm saying the psychologist go, you

Speaker 1

0:30:31 - 0:31:17

is. And I think that's something that we just I would love to see more of that conversation being had, and it's exciting that it has. You mean yes, I think there is a part of me that's certainly a part of me and probably most psychologists who go. How come we didn't know this stuff before? How come we weren't talking about it in sport, in leadership? What has been has been? And let's just be glad that it's happening now and looking to the future with what else we can do. I would like to see at a community level at a governmental level, more conversation around this as well. That's something that I find frustrating that so much of our conversation in our community around mental health is really about mental illness. And I know my my listeners know that I beg on. That is a bit, but every little bit helps.

Speaker 2

0:31:17 - 0:31:27

It does more people like you. That wonderful programme you're doing the leadership programme in Ballarat. Your community programme that helps it apparently wasn't always like this. Do you know Dr Nikola Gates?

Speaker 1

0:31:28 - 0:31:29

The name is familiar.

Speaker 2

0:31:29 - 0:32:42

I'll put you in contact with Michael. You need to get her on this podcast. And Nikola is our stride stronger consulting psychologist on neuro psychologist and Nikola was telling me in a podcast recently where I was interviewing. It's actually nice to be interviewed and she was saying that it wasn't always life. That's psychology. In the early 19 hundreds looked at human condition. Then we had two world wars and the World war. It was about after that post traumatic stress. We didn't have a term back then, but was about trauma. So psychology really became about what is wrong in the human condition. And then I think a lot of us have heard the Martin Seligman Storey Martin Seligman, the president of the American Psychological Association. He's watering his lawn, these young daughter said, Dad, you're a psychologist. Yeah, yeah, I'm the president of the American Psychological Association. Were Dad, how come you always tell me what's wrong rather than what's right? Apparently the pose when everywhere in selling went well. And then he was seen a starting the positive psychology movement that Nicholas said to me, No, no, that's rubbish had always been there. But World War one and two got us to really focus on what's wrong. And then suddenly we step back away while we look att the other side for human flourishing rather than just a language thing or struggling

Speaker 1

0:32:42 - 0:34:30

absolutely. And I mean the humanistic psychologist. In fact, I don't know. Here we are in my enormous pile of books that I have on my desk here and for our listeners. This is completely pointless exercise because you can't see me, but I'm holding up Scott Barry Kaufman's book Transcend, which is possibly back the front for Andrew. Is he saying it's just the new science of self actualisation? And in a Scot who is the host off the psychology podcast, one of my favourite podcasts. Listen, Teo has re examined the work ofthe Abraham Maslow, so we don't know Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So he was one of the humanistic psychologists from the fifties and sixties, and there was a humanistic which is really the precursor to positive psychology in many ways, looking at what does help people to thrive and flourish. But it was largely theoretical at that stage. There wasn't a whole lot in the way of scientific rigour around it, you know, wonderful, wonderful ideas that have stood the test of time and quite mesmerising when you read them Now in the context of what we know. But Scott has actually put that included all of the up to date research in PAS Psych and the Related fields and incorporated with some of the storeys of Maslow. And it's an amazing book. So definitely one to raid. And, yes, sort of parallels that idea that, you know, this stuff has always been there. It's just not hand thie emphasis, and that's part of the human condition in that we will always our brains were naturally alert us to the things that are problematic going wrong, causing trouble, causing grief and gloss over the good bit. So it's probably just part of that same narrative that in psychology we've started to go or what were the problems? Where's the dysfunction on? Absolutely. We need to do that.

Speaker 1

0:34:30 - 0:34:50

We need Teo be providing the services and the support and the knowledge and the skills and everything to those people who are struggling with ill health, but very much a CZ you suggest in match fit. We also need to be making sure that everyone in every domain has all of those skills as well. Before the wheels fall off, preferably

Speaker 2

0:34:50 - 0:36:39

and, well, don't getting us back on the storey of a young. They ordered that transcend this afternoon. The question you asked before the little bit excited about the evolution of psychology is three parts, too. It's not just a book, it's the way we approach working with people in blood, skull culture programmes we call it. First of all, calculate number two, engage number three tracks. So what does that really mean? number one. Find out where you are. So for your wonderful listeners, they can go to the website Match fit calculated dot com, and they could do the max your calculator and they'll find a score out of 100. They'll get a school for their body and brain, and then they'll get five sides based metrics as well, which shows them mental agility, mental flexibility, their nutrition barometer. They'll get a physical posture profile. They'll get a movement. And there's one as well on recovery. So very, very rigorous. And then you basically a magical you know. Well, like about that is you then have a score to work on because we are predominately gold setting gold achieving creatures on when you give someone a score, like if you're building a financial portfolio or running a sales business, there's metrics that underpin that. So get the calculate first. The second bit, which is most off the book, is engaged on the other six levers. We looked at two really to activate the body and brain, but also I want to live for a long time, and I'm like I openly have said on many public forums, I want to live to 130. I've got good genetics. My great grandfather lived to 99 on Guy. The storey goes here, went of World War ll smoked a combination of tobacco and cow poo. They used to give Dr Halperin mix about with tobacco so it would go further back in the old days at 99 years of age. Yeah, Wonderful taste.

Speaker 2

0:36:40 - 0:38:20

99 years of age. He read the Sydney Morning Herald that Marlboro Man in and fine print It said smoking may cease your lifespan. So our family joke is silly. Old guy should have kept smoking. He would have made 100 coming people smoke at all because there's genetics and epi genetics. So here, genetics is what you have. EPA genetics is how you express your genes. So I've obviously got some good genes that'll take me, hopefully for a long time. But then it's what you do to have a healthy, prosperous life along the way. So the six leaders are, and in no particular order, because it's not like, Well, first you got another one that the six our move fuel recharge, think play connect move is physical activity, which is not fitness. It's physical activity, just getting going all the time and moving the body. Obviously, fuel is nutrition and fluids, and alcohol recharges two things. It's physical relax, ation. So that's parasympathetic response and its psychological detachment. Switching off the mind, you got to do both body and braid. Then we got think, which is obviously the whole from If you're struggling, don't tell someone and I'm getting into your domain so off course, you and your listeners know this. If you're feeling below the line, if you've stressed anxious, depressed and someone says goes at an affirmation, you know, wake up every day, go get staff because if you if you are not thinking in a healthy way, don't go and put this sugar coating. And I sometimes get our rate, as I know you do when you hear the motivation speakers, some of the bio hackers saying you just set a daily intention believe Love Leader Legacy will know if you're feeling stink, get some support and work out the thinking skills before you start doing stuff.

Speaker 2

0:38:20 - 0:38:47

And I'm not sugarcoating affirmations, and I do a lot of stuff in thought. Psychology around pre performance retains and framing and all that stuff as well. But the thinking skills for where you are is really connect was connecting with your purpose, connecting with others relationships, connecting with community and connecting with nature. And then the six, the father one we added in was play, You've got two boys,

Speaker 1

0:38:47 - 0:38:48

Cuba late

Speaker 2

0:38:48 - 0:39:33

and for you and for our listeners, whether you have kids in your family, immediate or extended family or you just know kids on and you look at kids, they play. They have play dates, they watch play school. They have play time played over. And my kids, What am I gonna have for lunch? So kids just have this beautiful language they play. What are we doing way as adults, especially during covert? We we do soon meeting. Wait on. That's where the storey ends. Way. Do some meetings and then we wonder why we get to the end of the year and we're just so tired of the way get. They allow there. So you've gotta add in play and fun and laughter Enjoy

Speaker 1

0:39:34 - 0:40:16

on that was what there's a couple of things in there in those different domains that you've outlined that I really wanted to pick up on because I think they are the ones that get forgotten plays. One of them will come back to that. The other one was the recharge, and they're probably a bit aligned in what you just mentioned then about being at the end of the year and just starting to feel like and so many people, just like I just need a break. I need that holiday. I need that rest. I need to get out of my current. For those visiting Victoria in particular, I think I just need to get out of my space and go somewhere else. But But recharge, I think, is something that we forget and that my understanding is it is something that is starting to be spoken about Mohr, particularly in the sporting domain. And then they're across the performance domains.

Speaker 2

0:40:16 - 0:41:53

Looking sport is just too given. If you're now running a performance department in any professional sport and I would even go the next level like semi professional sport and you don't have a recovery plan, you're not going to have a job for very long because we know when you put in proactiv recovery strategies in sport and there's a whole range of modalities, like ice pods, massage, hydration. We know after men or women finish a game, especially contacts for the recover, 40% quicker if you start the recovery process straightaway. So after a grand final, of course, they're going to have babies. But after a game midseason, if they have bees, well, they're delaying the whole recovery process. You get more soft tissue injuries. Everyone knows you are actually putting not just yourself but the team at risk. So there's a real shift in that culture now. I think a lot of people going footballers, especially male footballers Australia, have had a reputation of drinking a lot while they used Teo, Tony, what in cities. And now some of them don't drink at all. Then you have everything. The sleep Onda love them where we are bands and they have HIV heart rate variability. They do your analysis and power grids and daily logs like you know what your emotion like that. There's this whole physical, psychological and emotional ways off measuring their recovery. Now I'm going to be a risk of sounding like one of those people of when I was doing sports conditioning. 10 years ago, I was where it was just starting to really come in. I think it's got a bit far, and I'm doing some mental skills work with some professional sporting teams now, which I'm loving and just talking to the physical department. And it's really interesting. There's two schools of thought.

Speaker 2

0:41:53 - 0:43:48

There's one is manage everything, which is almost micro. Ondas, thie, others who I think come sometimes more from the performance back around themselves. A go a ll that stuff Nice. But when I look at a player, But I could see in her eyes she hasn't got that spark or joy or playfulness. She normally has a trading. I don't need your analysis force plate platforms, you heart rate variability and all the other stuff I could just say, Hey, Sarah, how are you? I'm fine. Okay. Most males done the right thing. Are you okay? Fine. So Syria in the last three does what's something that has been joyful? Or so you go that deeper level. So I think that's the thing that we need to look at as well. Don't just get stuck up on the measurement off recovery. Look at some of the humanistic things as well, so I think that in sport is now just a given. But in the corporate world, and I know we've had chats about this over the years, the corporate high Flyer executives who board into peer Deacon Burton's 1906 Olympic creature was a good one out his Delta's forties. Faster, higher, stronger. And then you're going to mid forties and wonder why your hormones aren't working the same. Why you're memory recall e why you've attained this level of success. So you've got achievement, but you don't feel fulfilled. One of the biggest myths people gonna have is it's all about achievement. I'm going to be happy, but you get to get to this wonderful level of success. And then there's no real meaning purpose. And then thie Todd cash down, who talks about the good life in the good life. You can have both the goods life, pleasure meeting, success, power. But the good life is pleasure, meaning a purpose. So in sport, which is to give it, we'd play hard, we recover hard, we play hard, we recover hard in the corporate world.

Speaker 2

0:43:48 - 0:44:44

It could be Go, go, go, go, go, go, go but the recovery that helps you make meaning. It's the reflection loads of research you could quite right now on the power off reflective practise on how that helps you change behaviours and acknowledge what's worked and form new mental models. But the recovery that gives you sustainability eso Tom Brady is 43 still playing NFL. Roger Federer is getting towards, what, 37? I think it was unheard off so they might be out liars now. But you watch in sport in the next 15 20 years, you'll have more players playing until their late thirties or early forties. So now the corporate world is something. Oh, federal Brady Serena Williams are playing a decade longer than their peers because they're actually building in some time for recovery. Maybe we should do the same.

Speaker 1

0:44:45 - 0:45:39

Yeah, it's a big cultural shift, isn't it? For organisations, for just people generally, perhaps for especially those who are high achievers and used to performing. And there is, Ah, an expectation that we have spoken or unspoken, that you just keep going hard that you work these incredible hours that pre covert, at least you're on an aeroplane every other week, flying from here to there to get to meetings, to visit different, back to the business, whatever it might be. A and it's going to take something, and I'm not sure what it is, you know? Do you think? Is it your experience that there reflection is starting to happen? That noticing that thiss isn't helping us in the way that we expect it would be's? Is it starting to stall people's performance? Is it just that lack of meaning is that that people are exhausted? Is the message getting through to you Think Yet

Speaker 2

0:45:39 - 0:47:30

give me about five different. Seems a good time. There's a definite greater awareness around it. When I was started speaking, a conference was 10, 12 years ago. When you talk about recovery from sport, war like now it's our common that we heard this before. So there's more people doing that. There's a muchmore awareness now around this whole human performance area as well, which has come from what's come from sport. It's come from military and performing arts. So if you talk about performance psychology, it's really what we do to get athletes in the zone. And I think we can sometimes get a little bit caught up on the big terms and everything, but really wanted. What is performance psychology? It's what's the moment? And how do you get the athlete to be totally present and do their best? So I think more Corporates ago in okay, What's the performance moment in my life? It's not 168 hours a week from running a company. It's what I'm doing. A market update. It's the road show to investors. It's the one on one with the future of guy or girl. I want to recruit as my next CFO, its managing up to the board when they asked me some really curly questions about revenue dropping during covert. So I think now Corporates are getting onto, I can use that. So I think I've covered off the first one that, yes, it is Muchmore common or it. It's known more. But self awareness and self regulation can sometimes be inducing cousins. Different things sell for wins. I know what to do. Look, Andrew, I've tried it. Or a ring. You know, I know what my heart rate variability. Practise yoga. Okay? Why their bags under your eyes? Who by your bark and of your kids on a Saturday morning. Then you start thinking in a hole. And why is there no passion in your in your life? But I don't actually do it s so it's actually putting it into practise E.

Speaker 2

0:47:31 - 0:49:09

Yeah. Yes, I've got all this stuff and I could tell you some funny storeys about people I've worked with over the years. And sometimes the worst coaching client is someone is highly educated and they use a coping mechanism called intellectual isation, so they know what to do. But they don't do it. Where is the best person? Someone who goes? No. I had no idea about that. Thank you. And they put it into practise and you see them a month later. They just have totally changed changed their world. The next one think I take up the third one on your list is we're now just becoming a lot more aware around. Life is very different with covert, I think now is it's OK to talk about now. A couple of months ago is still to rule. I know very close to you. Melbourne has just come out of lock down. And it was so good to go back to Melbourne earlier this week. But it's been a really tough year and in the past it has just been this ridiculous pace. And I don't want to downplay this because I know there's a lot of small business owners who still in on their phone and some of them may never be the same. My heart goes out to the 2.2 million Australian small business owners of which you and I are in there. Break it. It's been challenging. There's a number of people who don't have jobs. There's a number of industries that have been impacted dramatically. Some of flourished summer floundered. Most are somewhere in between, so I don't trivialise. What I do want to talk about, though, is covert. I think has really changed for a lot of us. The focus on what's important because when you're working from home and you're there with your partner, your flatmate, your neighbour, your kids, your community, there's been this shifting and gears was like the first three months up until Easter was panic fear, a middle hijack anxiety.

Speaker 2

0:49:09 - 0:50:54

We're gonna have jobs. We're all on Zoom and I was just It was this constant go, Go, go, go, Go! So no talking about recovery there declined Probably wasn't the right thing. Hey, you know, do some breathing. Do you realise if you look at your mobile phone 30 minutes before you go to bed, it stimulates your pineal gland? Don't do that. It's going to impact. Your deep sleep may get stuff. I don't know what I'm gonna have a job. So when you're in that fear factor, support people, get through it. Then I think what happened, Ellen around April. And as thiss went longer and it wasn't Hey, you know it's going to be finished by the end of the year. We still don't know when is CO Vered either gonna have a vaccine or be eradicated enough that we can get on with normal living. So it's the new normal. But it's shifted a lot of people's perspective to actually look at what's important. And I think this global experiment on pushing everyone to work from home has been amazing for future diversity. I think it's amazing for women and men. I think sometimes we just say I have working women that I was a single doubt the six years sound sick. My hand up for all the the dads and moms. Single month's end out because it's bloody tough. But flexible working conditions are going to make it so much easier for the primary carers with their kids. I know you had a couple of experiences with your boys. I never want to do home schooling again. It made us appreciate teachers, a large school. Teachers I've always loved school teachers. They get paid way too little for the impact they have on people's lives. But I did. We miss them when we didn't have a drink over so bit of a ramble. But I think over has been a great reset on. I do think we'll look back in a number of years on. I really do hope we just don't go backto What wass.

Speaker 2

0:50:54 - 0:51:14

I hope we throw out some of the stuff that wasn't working. Some of the ridiculous practises where companies go on L. A. Welcome to the organisation. Here are our values, integrity, respect, ballots. I can't look Andrew, Front afternoon. I want to go pick up my kids at three pm I know we've got a proposal, you know it's the value, but I heard behaviours date. Maybe it's totally change, and that's good

Speaker 1

0:51:14 - 0:51:51

coming back to that rest reflection, recharge. And I really like that you mentioned the word reflection because I think a big part of this is that actually taking the time to embed the learning to think about what it is we're doing, why we're doing it. I had to use it. You know, the old small business analogy that came from the myth that it's the working on your business instead of just in your business, which is the same with life. It's working on your life and not just being in it day today. What are your tips when you're working with leaders with organisations to help people actually start to embed some of the doing off? This makeover is giving us opportunities, but what should they be doing?

Speaker 2

0:51:51 - 0:53:42

One of my favourite quotes is the power ofthe culture voting free space, and we don't because a lot of people can't relax. A lot of people can't bay. They dio do stuff. They feel that the diary from some up to sundown and then when they go on a holiday or a yoga retreat, wonder why they have all these feelings bubble up on that. It is so just get busy. Scary. I don't like doing this. I building with my leaders reflective practise in a week, and I like them all to have at least two or three hours just to have a notebook. Ideally, get off the technology because unless they've got amazing self regulation that they'll cheque Instagram, they'll cheque. Lengthy, indulgent. The dopamine hit and they go into infinity pools. And three hours later they just watch cat videos and a couple of fishing videos way. All have. So getting that to build that reflective practising is really important. And also I worked with a lot of high achievers, and it's been similar to my Storey Go, go, go! Altria's Delta's 40th. I need to find out what the word is for recovery in Latin, but recovery. Us often takes me 3 to 6 months to work with a male or female executive, high performer, media entertainer artist to actually enjoy doing nothing to enjoy stillness, to actually see that that peace and calm is really important because, as I mentioned earlier, that's where you make meaning. And if you read journaling to that its rocket fuel for you to really navigate and align that were personal purpose. You really start to make decisions that are true to your core and then you find a few years later Wow, I find that I mean, Flo Ah lot Maura and I'm doing stuff I really enjoy. They were going to be careful to not go on. Find your purpose. Find your passion. Sometimes people are never going to really find their true patient at work.

Speaker 2

0:53:43 - 0:55:11

So find something you can adapt to and have wonderful patient pursuits outside a ll that mixed in. If you don't take time out, it's just go, go, go, go, go, go, Go! So I'm a huge believer in putting a recovery plan together for people. I think every day we should take 5 to 10 minutes. I I used to run behind and I emphasise it behind the Kenyan runners and the Kenyans had a beautiful word Hopper hopper, which means now, now and slowly, slowly. We don't have a word like that in the English language. Funny, but every day have 5 to 10 minutes of Harper Harper. It could be meditation. There could be mindful inside. Could be just breathing. They're just doing nothing every week to a few activities that bring on Paris. Sympathetic activation that could be yoga. It could be a bath and lock the door. Get the kids out, light a candle, have your favourite music. Listen to music. It could be just a walk in the park in bare feet is even better ground nature. It could be a massage. Ellen. You might get your hair done. I don't really have that need anymore, but it's just something that's around self care. So something every day, something every week, every month. If you got to really get into this, I'd say Take out Ah, half day most months. Just treat yourself and then every year, a proper holiday for 10 days to two weeks when you are off the technology and you just go back to doing like we did. It's kids building a fort or playing with sticks on. But I know we don't build forts and play sticks, but when we were kids, we used to survive without technology.

Speaker 1

0:55:12 - 0:55:53

And so, Andrew what it treats me about that because I know you know when I've spoken about passionate believer and everything that you've just stated there. And I think even for me it's been a personal challenge because I am a do er by nature and lots of expectations about what one should be doing with one's time at any given moment. So how do you work with perhaps the resistance that you might get from people as they transition there thinking, Because it is a mindset shift, isn't it to start to be able to give ourselves permission to do this recharging to allow us? I was time out to do things that at some level, feel very self indulgent, at least initially, until we start to understand the benefits

Speaker 2

0:55:54 - 0:57:36

for two things that I want to pick up. One is that self management is not selfish, and for anyone listening to this, I call the Try it if you are female. If you are family oriented and you have religious or spiritual beliefs, think about this as I'm talking to you. Yeah, I'm Seema. I'm talking about others, not me, Ellen. Some female. I am family oriented and I have religious or spiritual beliefs. You will put yourself last all the time. You would do everything for the community of the clients, the stakeholders, even that beach down the road that you can't share and you'll do something for her because she's on the school committee and then you put yourself last, put your oxygen mask on first. It's a great analogy when you're flying, you put your oxygen mask on before your kids and other loved ones because you then make better decisions. So I'm very firm on that. It's not self indulgence. It's self management. You are a better mother, a better father, a better lover about a family member when you take care of yourself. Yeah, the second thing on that is getting a bit deep. So if I go to coaching psychology, pull me Alan. But depends on the case. Conceptualisation. So when you start with someone in coaching, psychology and clinical psychology, we always start with a blank pad with no preconceived ideas. Because true coaching counselling meant Oregon is you are in service off others. Do you use A ll the skills or the training all the sides or the research to better try and support that person to be in a better way? Whatever that means. So then I'll try and work out. Do I think that person's physical based or they mohr cognitive based now to know the research on this? So maybe it's a paper we need to look at down the track. I find people who've had a physical background.

Speaker 2

0:57:36 - 0:58:22

If I talk about all the benefits off yoga and breathing everything else and try and get them to change the cognitive approach, they stay up here in the head physical. I'll get them to do the physical. And then I find they're thinking catches up with the movement example when I was a personal trainer for years, and I didn't know anything about coaching psychology back then, but I used to get great results because I used to train my clients the way I used to run. Now I wasn't brought our divers, but if someone said, Hey, I want to lose weight, right? Come and see me on Monday and then come join my group on Wednesday and Friday. Can I talk about it? Yeah, come and see me on Monday. We'll do is training session on Monday on then on Wednesday and Friday doom a group session, and if they stayed three months later, they'd be really fit. And then they would tell May Andrew I'm sleeping Better

Speaker 1

0:58:22 - 0:58:22

to You

Speaker 2

0:58:22 - 0:58:25

know, physical activity is wonderful for your self esteem.

Speaker 1

0:58:25 - 0:58:25

Do you

Speaker 2

0:58:25 - 0:58:28

know I've started to offshoot products because I'm more creative?

Speaker 1

0:58:28 - 0:58:29

Do you

Speaker 2

0:58:29 - 0:59:52

know my wife? True Storey, one of the client, said. My wife was that close to leaving the Andrew. She had the spare car, her car reversed front out boot pact, saying, If you don't shape up, I'm going to ship out I said, Really? He said, Yeah, Ricky's room in the car. She was ready to start the separate. But you know, now she's saying I'm a much more compassionate, loving person, so I could have explained that right, that physical activity of lights up the brain physical activity has wonderful role modelling. But if I'd spent hours coaching that person, they wouldn't have got it. So when they actually stay in the structure perceived locus, of course ality. Now, no frame on that. You tell someone you're gonna do it, and then they sort of start almost liking it, and then they suddenly go. Hey, Ellen, you should be doing this to they become the biggest pain in the back way also be doing fitness is wonderful for our relationship. Now then I have some people who are more the cognitive ones, and the risk with them is you can spend lots of time talking about models and frameworks and schemer, but they don't do anything. But if you go too quickly on those people with action or loser because they want to get off the dance floor onto the balcony, give them a few structures. So I'll say OK, weakened naval goes, pontificate, ruminate and all the other eights for a while, but then just get off your backside and do it, so that was a long answer. But it's exciting, right? We can have this meaningful deep conversation.

Speaker 1

0:59:52 - 1:00:51

Absolutely. And I think, and I can't for the life of me. I'm racking my brain as you speak for the exact quote, and I can't remember it after two of my head. But it's along the lines off motivation. It's not something that we find. It's something that comes once we've started. So that idea again, with a physical element for you. It's the doing our bed, and we understand the physiology behind that as well. But I think for so many of these things, and I know I'm always advocating for my coaching clients and others that I work with. That paying attention is just a really big part of thiss that you do something. If you pay attention to how you feel physically, how you feel emotionally, what's going on around you that will embed the learning the benefits that you're getting from it because you start to see and simple things like I'm a big fan of just walking. So this year, like many other families, we acquired a covert dog. So take the dog

Speaker 2

1:00:51 - 1:00:53

for a war. What sort of dog

Speaker 1

1:00:54 - 1:00:54

of all things

Speaker 2

1:00:54 - 1:01:09

way got a dog just before covert, which was a good time? And because they doubled or tripled in price? We've gotta Gruebel on now. I go walking and could almost see people wanting to offer money. You're actually thinking of telling him, and then I'll just say the kid's he's run away grand.

Speaker 1

1:01:10 - 1:01:15

Well, yes, you're in Sydney and the noodles. It's oodles and oodles for eagles, apparently, in Sydney. So

Speaker 2

1:01:15 - 1:01:19

a friend of mine said recently, You've got an F another

Speaker 1

1:01:23 - 1:01:30

regional, you know, on the cusp of rural landscape here. So we've gone the good Australian working dog.

Speaker 2

1:01:30 - 1:02:43

Beautiful dogs. Yeah, look back to what you're saying. It's not one size fits all. That's what we love about coaching and sort of love about conversations like this that when you're a builder, you have 15 different hammers. You don't try and hit the same nail with the same hand. There's a science, and this one is an art in this as well. But regardless of whether it's perceived locus off cause ality with its other models case conceptualisation and all these other words, the biggest part is just showing up and continue to show up. So I often get asked, especially a media. I'll look what is the best exercise to make your physically fit with this? One thing I could ask this recently informed There's one thing and do it like I can do to increase your red Carol. Texas lady sort of read. Carol directs growth mindset. I love what is the best thing I can do. Have a growth mindset, I said everything I spoke about today. What's the world I know? Walk every day. You know I have love in your life, no to your brain to show up, and it's the same with fitness. What's the best way to get fitted? Ripped in your forties? Get 10,000 steps every day and he trained three or four times a week and do that time and time and time again. There's no Magic pen affair. Sorry. Your listeners have probably now just propped up

Speaker 1

1:02:43 - 1:03:40

by the thousands. Well, I hope not, because I hope it'll the list thing that they've done through all of our guests and the conversations we've had that they appreciate that nothing about human behaviour is straightforward, simple, and there isn't a magic bullet. I know they're smart enough to know that, but it's about giving them all of the tips and the strategies from all the different domains that we discussed on the show. To be able to, I suppose, find the right thing for you. Just as you say that it is about tailoring to what you need and the better we get it understanding ourselves as individuals and what works for us, the better able we are to pick the right strategy or just to come back to a growth mindset, try things and work out what works and quickly work out. I think if anybody asked me, it's the best way to develop a growth mindset. It's just to fail at everything because it's only through the failures. We work out what works. So you try everything that people suggest, an obviously doing the things that an evidence base, I think is a pretty good place to start.

Speaker 2

1:03:40 - 1:03:48

So it's on that. Can I ask you a question course on DH? You can claim, although we've got more questions to ask you. So you conduct a way for this sort of

Speaker 1

1:03:48 - 1:03:51

happy to be on the receiving end. Do you

Speaker 2

1:03:51 - 1:04:06

ever do any coaching or any conversations with your title on an evidence base where you just do it? I think that it comes Tio. This feels right and you have full permission. Teo, avoid this question.

Speaker 1

1:04:06 - 1:04:35

No, no, I'm not going to avoid it at all because you mentioned Tony Grant earlier on and Tony Wass out esteems lecturer. Amazing person who read in the coaching psychology unit along with Michael Kevin are in the early days and somebody that I know we both learned a lot from, and I distinctly remember one of those heart moments sitting in my lectures when Tony talked about jazz coaching and then

Speaker 2

1:04:35 - 1:04:40

you've just taken me back. Teo

Speaker 1

1:04:40 - 1:06:25

approaching ideal meant a lot for me, and I think it was something that I developed over time. I think early on, like when you're learning anything, you really you stick pretty rigidly to what you've been taught to the models, to the evidence to the strategies, and you evacuate through that. Over time you develop this tool kit, some of which I absolutely admit a lot of it because I work from an evidence base and I like having these conversations, and I read the science, et cetera, et cetera. So there's probably a tool kit of things that I'm not even aware that unnecessarily accessing that do have an evidence base. But there's also just a bit that comes from life experience and a bit of earned wisdom, perhaps, and a bit of our own failing and the things that we've tried that worked and didn't work and all of that. And then we get to a point where we can a bit like a jazz musician, just improvise. Based on this, took it that we bring forth in the moment, which is what I love about the doing of coaching with a client is sometimes I don't know what's going to come out of my mouth. It's a very in the moment experience where you're creating a dynamic between two individuals and just uncovering what comes out very much like a podcast interview. You know, we could have scripted this and said, I'll ask you this and then we'll talk about that and that. But we didn't I just said, Well, let's just have a conversation, see where it goes on. I think that's where the magic can arise. But we've both brought to that our training, our experience, our knowledge, our conversations we've had with clients, our other experiences as parents and speakers or whatever. It might be a and don't you produce something in the moment?

Speaker 2

1:06:26 - 1:08:03

Interesting. If you look at your evolution of mind, we've come from two totally different areas and it probably now lot or not. Probably we are now a lot more similar unaligned. I was a jazz coach on DH. I can remember in the coaching psych when we did a similar time and it was a lot of people were doing it from a clinical background, and I think through the clinical people struggle with people like me. And look, I was a bit of a cowboy. Too much of a couple. I think KPMG made me realise how cowboy you should loose. I spent 15 years in sport. You don't know already how off the charts you are. But it was a late on feel for May, and then I found some frameworks and it was great. But sometimes I still go back to feel. So I think there's a really nice blend somewhere in between. I think you can do too much on field. No, this is what I feel in there II on. Then there's the Jazz. Coaching is Tony elegantly put it. I also used to remember him and I still, every time I'm even writing notes and you're interviewing May God, Toni's legacy lives on because he used to say, If it ain't written, it ain't coaching. I don't even know why you seduce an American accent. E think. Is that nice planned between jazz coaching and rigour on DH. Sometimes you go on field. Remember John Raymond asked me to speak of the Asia Pacific Conference, and he wanted me to be a bit controversial because he knew my style that in the early days I think encouraging cycles more around the coach coach E thie coach. He has all the answers, and your job as a coach is to facilitate that. I used to think that was rubbish because I was worked with a lot of my Jazz coaching coming out. Ah, lot of really busy men and women who didn't have time to have cops attained sticky bomb. And if I didn't get a result the first session, they would never come back.

Speaker 2

1:08:03 - 1:08:55

So don't to meet this coach and coach you thing and wonderful models and everything because it's not going to work if they don't come back. So I spoke about that, and I thought I'd go Just gotta be terrible. And I quoted Peterson's pipeline and Justice. And here's how. I think you can tell and still use Peterson's pipeline. And at the end, this guy asked a question. That's neither. It's a really good question. So what's your name? He said. Peterson, the site. Where are you from? I wrote that part. Remember? E have since connected with him. He's a Google. He's head of floating in development. But he said, Andrew, I thoroughly agree with you and it was like I thought it was going to open up the end of that session and everyone's got a boo me off stage And Peterson right? Peterson's fight line actually said, I agree with you. Yes, it was made me feel a lot less notice. But anyway, the point being, I think there's a blend between this

Speaker 1

1:08:55 - 1:09:41

absolutely. Look, I expect that That's the same with everyone. You know, you mentioned it earlier and you talk in match fit as well about these performance moments and sports people who have been able to in fact, some of this stuff. You have these air haven't awareness to use the mindset to perhaps all of that rest and recharge and all of those things that we thought didn't exist. But perhaps they did at the individual level on they bring them because it comes through experience through learning through understanding themselves through knowing what works for them in the moment. And we consort of extrapolating that now with some scientific rigour behind at two, then suggest it as a new approach that others can use, and I'm sure that's the case in just about every work domain, professional domestic.

Speaker 2

1:09:42 - 1:10:09

That's what makes it so rich. Doesn't have. I had a coaching session with a client this morning who was an ex athlete and very, very physical and amazing control over the body, but not good emotional regulation. And then he played back at the end of this ocean was our third social adjustment. I work here is done, you know, starting to self regulate on. But yeah, and then some of the tools I use with him were a little bit left field. A bit of Joe's coaching going on their

Speaker 1

1:10:09 - 1:10:12

elegant way. Love a bit of allocating

Speaker 2

1:10:12 - 1:11:23

if I come back, Teo the original frame on this on recharge. I think when you have the time to reflect and develop and grow and put it all together, you get more comfortable with your craft. Whereas I know in the early days I was very formulaic. Um, part of that was because it was worried what other people would think. There's a real link between that and being the performance guy, and then you're falling down. But just having that time to work out well, what works for May? Yeah, but regardless ofthe whoever's listening to this, whatever your career is, it's moving regularly. It's sound nutrition. We could have a whole different podcast on nutrition and not just for the physical, for the neuroscience. And thank goodness we've got neuroscience. But Hippocrates 2.5 1000 years ago, 2.5 1000 years ago, Allen said. Ah, healthy body and sound nutrition is the platform for a flourishing mind. We just needed the physical activity men and women in the physiotherapist to talk to the psychologist. We need a neuro science to get the link. A pocket is new it thousands of years ago. Crazy, right? But what you eat is such an important part ofthe brain function, brain health, mood regulation, the recovery on top of that

Speaker 1

1:11:23 - 1:11:41

and then on the other conflict. You're right. We could have a whole other conversation about this, but I think there's an awful lot of those other complicated things around, how we feel about what we eat as well, what we think about what we eat and whether or not with meeting all of those should Tze and again a conversation for another day. It was

Speaker 2

1:11:41 - 1:11:50

David David E. Five wrapped up his podcast and hadn't said it would have no past. I've spoken for David

Speaker 1

1:11:50 - 1:13:32

David, and there are lots and lots of things that we could keep talking about. But I'm conscious that you've got two things you need to do, and I know I've got other things that are coming up. I've got another podcast interview to record shortly, but it's been absolutely delightful. Teo Converse about everything we've conversed about, and it's gone every direction as all good podcast episodes J. I'm going to pop links to several of the things that you've mentioned today, but most particularly to match it, which is the complete manual to get your body and brain fit for work and fit for life into the show Notes for today's episode, along with the link for the Magic Calculator so that those people and and I think I believe there is a link in the book as well, or a code for people to use if you buy the booty. They got the code so that you can access the calculator because it is that first starting point in measuring kind of where you're at and then using match fit as the manual for all of those things that we talked about and more in a really engaging way as well is really more about Andrew Storey itself in order to get back into peak condition. Particularly, perhaps, if you're feeling and so many of us are, I think it's the end of 2020 launching into 2021 a little like we could do with a bit of brain and body conditioning, perhaps as well as the although psychological things, the purpose, the fun, the play, the reconnecting, the rest, the recharge, all of those really critical topics that we do tend to forget. A little particularly were in performance mode. So Andrew, thank you. It's been delightful.

Speaker 2

1:13:32 - 1:14:33

It's been lovely catching up. I will send to you a link, and you can give everyone a download of the recharged chapter about that a lot on. We've covered some deep glossed over other, and we've gone off script and that was my fault. We'll send that through because the recharge piece is really important, especially with co Vered, because there will be a lot of meaning that comes out of this stress is great. If ever I hear in academic or someone saying stress is terrible, I wantto know, Get the trapdoor, get them off stage. Stress is awesome when you have periods to recover, we now call it stress inoculation theory, right? If you're training at the point of the military, you give them stress and then time to recover stress in time to recover. We now talk about post traumatic rose so you would post after traumatic covert hello growth we will learn and develop and for a lot of people would never go back. But to do that, you actually need some time to recover and time to process it. So send that recharge chapter, actually help people put some of those strategies in the practise.

Speaker 1

1:14:33 - 1:15:01

Perfect Look, I think that's an excellent point. And perhaps it is the first thing as we head into a New year to think about is not all the goals I'm going to achieve in a performance, you know, impress everybody type sense or even my own fulfilment. It's perhaps about recharging first. Maybe that's the first thing we need to do in 2021 but we'll say Andrew. Thank you again. Open all the links so that people can find you. I think it is just Andrew made dot com. Is that the best place to go?

Speaker 2

1:15:01 - 1:15:05

Teo Comma at Andrew May on all the social?

Speaker 1

1:15:05 - 1:15:13

Of course. Yes. I will put all the links to all of that so that everyone can find you. They can still catch you, I believe on ABC News Breakfast as well.

Speaker 2

1:15:13 - 1:15:41

Yeah. We went live this week, which was lovely being back in the studio with Michael and Lisa and the business fit podcast for any small business owner or anyone in business who wants support around physical wellbeing and psychological resilience and getting back to business podcast with ah Hole bunch of small business owners, leaders in business, large and small entertainers, athletes. A whole range of subject matter experts are lots of content there.

Speaker 1

1:15:41 - 1:17:23

Lots of content. Absolutely. And that's what we like to be able to share. So thank you. We will put all of that in the show for this episode and we'll chat again. Sometimes. See jazz coaching. You do that. Thanks. Thanks so much for sharing that chat with Andrew May with me. Andrew is a delight to talk to a very experienced performance coach, as you can no doubt tell on. I really do recommend his book of match fit to complete the manual to get your body and brain fit for work and 50 for life. That is a really comprehensive handbook for a well rounded approach to both physical and mental health. It's full of great strategies, lots of practical tips, and it is well supported by the science. And there's a link to buy the book in the show notes for this episode, as well as that free chapter that Andrew mentioned to for you to download and peruse. And don't forget that you can also go to match fit calculated dot com to measure your match fitness for work and life and get your personalised reported a great starting point. If you came to make some changes and improve your match fitness for life, you'll also find all of the leaks to find out more about Andrea and his work in the show notes. It's all that potential dot com dot you forward slash 91. That's the digits 91 because that's the episode number. A new thing we're implementing for a new year. While we're talking about new things for 2021 there are some really exciting that new things happening behind the scenes here at P. P. H. Q. We're not quite ready to tell you about the act in full, but keep listening over our next year, episodes and all will be revealed.

Speaker 1

1:17:23 - 1:18:34

And if you're not subscribing to show already hit, subscribe to your podcast app so that new episodes part automatically added to your listening list and you will keep up to date with all of our upcoming episodes and guests. And, of course, our behind the scenes news ofthe new projects, new products, new activities here at people queue. Okay, so while we're talking about future episodes, what we have for the next episode off the show well, I will be talking to Dr Stan's Dine door about compassion, a turn that used frequently, but do you know what it really means? And what point does it take? And why hasn't it evolved as critical to the human species on? How do you use it to make day to day life a little easier on a little kinder for both ourselves? and others. Stand is a Brisbane based clinical psychologist, business owner, researcher, associate professor in the psychology at the university, Queensland and author all thie gift off compassion. How to understand, you know, become suffering. JJ has Bean very recently published Australian academic press on. Here's a little off what Stan has to say

Speaker 2

1:18:34 - 1:19:33

There are, in fact, three floats. We might express compassion for others, of course, but secondly, there is also the flow off self compassion. The third one is actually the flow off receiving compassion from others. And it's very interesting because that can be the one that we forget all even feel most reluctant about. I mentioned in the book about doing some training with a lot of student nurses. As you would expect, they were very high on compassion for others but quite low on self compassion but also receiving compassion from others. Let lower than perhaps you might even find in the general population. And it's important to consider because we want to try to get the three flows in balance if we're being compassionate towards others, a lot and that's very good, but it gradually can kind of use us up when the compassion is just flowing out towards others.

Speaker 1

1:19:33 - 1:19:57

That's the next episode of said 92 off. The potential cycle is you podcast. I'm very much looking forward to bringing that conversation to you. It will drop a little later in January. Oh, maybe early February, as I say that, But until then, stay safe. Go well, Do whatever you can to fulfil your potential. And don't forget to let me know about your three things.