Transcript | PPP101: 

How To Thrive: Exploring What's Strong Instead of What's Wrong


[00:00:00] Intro: Today on the Potential Psychology Podcast

[00:00:03] Marie:
Happiness is really sort of a momentary rise in our emotions that might just sort of be a, a moment when we sort of get surprised or delighted by something that happens. Thriving on the other hand is really we're aiming for more of a kind of consistent state of feeling good and functioning well. And to be clear, we're not talking about, you know, slapping a smile on your dial and being positive all the time, because we know that there are those sort of ups and downs that happen, but this is about how we can navigate those more resiliently and have a more sort of consistent state of being up more than down.

[00:00:42] Ellen:
Welcome to the Potential Psychology Podcast. I'm your host psychologist, Ellen Jackson, and this is the show in which we explore what it is to be human and how we as humans can fulfill our potential. Hello, and welcome back to the Potential Psychology Podcast or welcome if you are a new listener, it is great to have you here.

I am your host, Ellen Jackson. In fact, I'm one of your host for this season of the show. We're doing something a little different, which is very exciting. We're trying something new in the spirit of innovation and disruption, and maybe courage, probably courage, a lot of courage and learning. And it's all tied up with the topic where we're going to be talking about for this season.

We're sharing a series of eight shorter episodes. They're highly practical in nature. So lots of tips and strategies included, and they're focused on how to thrive, which is a really timely topic, I think. And there's no interview guests in this series of the show, because I'm delighted to say I have a wonderful co-host with me for these series that are going to discuss how to thrive and that wonderful co-host is trained social worker and positive psychology coach Marie McLeod.

Hi Marie

[00:02:00] Marie:
Hi, it's fantastic to be here, Ellen.

[00:02:03] Ellen:
It's exciting to be doing this together. As some, maybe many of our listeners would know you were a guest on the show in our last season, season eight, no season 10. Where did season eight come from season 10. Um, we're up to season 11, which is a little mind-boggling and, um, it was such a wonderful conversation.

And I really felt that there was so many topics and so many practical strategies and tips and ideas that have come from the work that you do that, you know, it just seemed like a no brainer really to get together and create this series in which we go into a little more depth and really share both how we apply this work in thriving and positive psychology in our work and our lives, most importantly, because we walk the talk, but also how we can really share those practical tips and strategies with our audience. So do you want to tell everyone a little bit more about what we're gonna cover?

[00:03:03] Marie:
Oh, it's so exciting. And it's just, Ellen and I've been speaking about this for a little while and it's wonderful to be here.

And I agree with the courage and creativity it takes to, uh, jump in, but it's just such a delight. So what we plan to do over the coming weeks is to share a little bit and just, you know, tiny high-level pieces of the framework that I used, uh, in the, how to thrive documentary that I worked on last year.

We spoke about it a little bit in our last interview and we might touch on again, but that framework is called BEACON. Some of, you may remember if you know, a little bit about positive psychology professor Martin Seligman's framework is called PERMA. I created a new framework because I wanted it to be something that had some metaphor.

It had a bit more ability to be memorable. And also it was something that sort of spanned from the individual to the collective, a little more readily. So, um, beacon, the metaphor is that we can shine our brightest for ourselves and others. And each of those letters stands for something. We call those BEACON beans.

The first is Belonging. Thinking about our close connections and belonging as a pillar of wellbeing, the E is about Engagement and how important it is that we get to do those things that we're good at. And that we love doing and get into kind of a feeling of flow. The A is for Accountability and the fact that we need to have goals and we need to kind of hang in there with both questions.

And the C is Compassion- Compassion for ourselves and others. The O is for Optimism. And that's really about how we understand our emotional range and how that affects us. It's about hope. It's about how we navigate the highs and lows, more resiliently and last but not least the N is for Nurture. And that's about nurturing our physical health in ways that also then how come mental health and how we sustain our energy.

So we're going to touch in on each with an intro and a conclusion and that'll be our series. So looking forward to it.

[00:05:02] Ellen:
It will, it's going to be really exciting. So it is a series of eight, we've got today, which we're going to talk a little more generally about what it means to thrive and introduce you to a great strategy that I think we've both used and I think both use with our clients to help really frame this upset the mindset, I suppose, so to speak around how to thrive and then over the coming episodes, which will go out weekly, we will address each of those beams of the BEACON model, the BEA C O N and a little conclusion at the end. So it is something different.

It's something really exciting. And it's great to be collaborating on this in this way. Marie, does it mean to thrive?

[00:05:45] Marie:
Well, it's a great question, Ellen, and I think that it's one that, you know, if I had the complete answer, I'd probably be a millionaire, but I think that there are some sort of secret formulas to happiness that many of us maybe don't get, you know, we go to school and we weren't, we learned the, sort of the basics of reading, writing computing and we might learn about our physical health, but many of us don't have the, what we might call well-being literacy and means that many of us might be sort of shooting for the wrong things.

Maybe we say we want to be happy, but what is happiness? Happiness is really sort of a momentary rise in our emotions that might just sort of be, uh, a moment when we sort of get, you know, surprised or delighted by something that happens. Thriving on the other hand is really where I'm aiming for more of a kind of consistent state of feeling good and functioning well.

And so really what you and I want to work on together as how do we help people? Not just to be happy, not to see those momentary sort of things that happen when we get sort of a little jolt joy or something like that. But we want to think about that more consistent state of feeling good and functioning well.

And to be clear, we're not talking about. You know, slapping a smile on your dial and being positive all the time, because we know that there are those sort of ups and downs that happen, but this is about how we can navigate those more resiliently and have a more sort of consistent state of being up more than down.

I love that. And I love that you've articulated that the difference between the emotional state, perhaps of the feeling good. I mean, feeling good to an important component of what we're talking about, isn't it. But it's not just about this sense that I need to feel positive or feel joy or feel happiness, or I feel like everything's okay even because we can absolutely thrive. In fact, we do thrive through the difficult periods, the periods when things are not okay, but it's perhaps a little more about smoothing out some of those experiences so that whilst we might be struggling, whilst the emotions that we're experiencing might not be what we call, you know, in inverted commerce positive.

Although it's always a little tricky when we attach value labels to emotions, they are just emotions, but we're able to then, have this resilience and the skills to cope and the skills to know and the knowledge to know that we're going to be okay. And the tools in our toolkit to pull out in those moments that help us to not just survive.

Isn't it, it's more than just survival.

It is more than just survival. And I guess my particular area of interest is can we thrive despite struggle, you know, like I think that sometimes we think that our environmental circumstances have more influence than they actually do. Uh, and so when, you know, Sonja Lubomirsky is kind of looking and research around this around what are the things that influence our habit.

We often call them happiness, but, you know, and I will maybe fall into that trap sometimes. So feel free to kind of pick me up on it but commonly we talk about happiness. You know what we want to talk about here as thriving, because it's a more consistent stage, but what are those influences? And there's a genetic component.

There's a component of our life circumstances, and there's a component about what we think can do. And so, you know, here on the show, what we want to be thinking about is how we give some practical tips and tools for people around what it is that they can think and do the mindsets and behaviors that can influence their ability to thrive because actually our life circumstances have very much smaller influence than we think but we overinflate that. We think, oh, poor me. I'm in a, in a lockdown or I'm feeling unwell, or I've got young children or I'm in a hard job and therefore I can't thrive. Or in fact, maybe I have a mental illness, maybe I have depression or anxiety or an eating disorder.

And so that's my particular interest is, do those things, those struggles need to define and confine us, or can we simultaneously experience struggle and thriving. And so that's what I guess I've been spending some time doing and was the subject of the documentary. And I think that we've found that you can, you know, those things are not mutually exclusive.

And so, obviously you know what we're thinking about as wherever our listeners are at on the mental health continuum, that my belief and my experience and the research is showing is that these things can help you to feel good and function well, wherever you're starting point.

[00:10:26] Ellen:
Such an important point. And I love that idea of, of being able to delineate that.

What can I think and do versus those pieces that I don't actually have any control over. I think, you know, if anything's taught us anything over the last couple of years, as we've struggled with a global pandemic, it's that, you know, so much of what has an impact on us over our life is entirely beyond our control.

And this has been the perfect if not always comfortable example of that. And yet there are always things that we can influence, that we can have an impact on that, do make a significant difference to our experience of that event even, and just framing it up as, you know, how do I think, and what can I do really hones in on that, that the piece that we can control, that circle of influence that we have beyond the circle of concern, those things that affect us, but we cannot change.

[00:11:26] Marie:
Yeah. And so the, the, one of the sort of signs that I most love is it's not about waiting for the storms to pass, but it's about learning to dance in the rain. And I think that's a really beautiful thing for us to reflect on is we can't stop the storms from coming, we can't stop, we could've never predicted, you know, a pandemic.

We don't know what's going to happen in our health, in our work with our children. But what we can do is learn things that help us to dance in the rain, doing things to help, that can help us to better navigate whatever life throws at us. And I think, you know, for, for those of us who are parents, that's not just for us, but it's how do we model that for our children in times that are good and bad.

[00:12:09] Ellen:
And even how we promote it for our children as well, isn't it. So, you know, we, we wouldn't be able to live and breathe it to model it ourselves, but we also want to be able to start developing in them, some of these skills, some of this mindset, how we think and do so that they can thrive throughout life.

Maybe learn from the gaps that we had in our experience so that they get to do more. Marie, can you tell us a little bit more about the science that sits behind this? The science of positive psychology is something that here in the Potential Psychology Podcast we talk a lot about. And yet it's probably been a little while since we delved into a little bit history or origins or, or why it so important indeed important to us because it certainly informs both of our practices in the work that we do.

[00:13:00] Marie:
Yeah, thanks, Ellen. It is an interesting one because I suppose, you know, I come from a background of social work and, uh, a long history of working with people and communities and struggle, and I've come from long time. Therefore from that sort of deficit focus that focus of, you know, what's wrong with these people, what's wrong with this community or this organization and how do we fix it?

Which is really, I guess, what happens in a lot of times in traditional psychology, there's a focus on the deficit, the dysfunction, the disorder, and how do we fix that and get that back to functioning again. Whereas positive psychology professor Martin Seligman around, I think 1998, he sort of started to go hang on what would happen if we started to focus on what's strong with us rather than what's wrong with us.

So positive psychology is the scientific study of what helps people, organizations and communities to thrive. And it's important to know that it is a scientific study. So this is kind of not pop psychology, that there is solid research behind it. And you know, that is underneath the framework of BEACON.

And what I've tried to do is kind of to, you know, fuse together. What experience has shown me works, what the research is also telling us. So the difference for me, I guess, is that we don't want to see these things as separate or competitive. You know, there is absolutely a role for traditional psychology and psychiatry, but what we're noting noticing is that there is a mental health epidemic. And that has been perhaps made worse by a pandemic. And the current solutions are not really enough in my view. And I see a lot of people in my coaching practice and in the group work that I run, where people have been going to psychologists and many other kinds of therapies for a long time.

And that focus on, what what's wrong with you? You're depressed. You're anxious. You've got an eating disorder. You've got OCD. How do we fix you? It's just not always working, but whereas I think if we can take those strategies for what works to help us thrive and apply them, then what we want to be thinking about is how do we bring more of what works well for people. How do we light up this strengths? How do we bring more light to areas of darkness in such a way the darkness begins to fade? So for my coaching clients and probably for you too, Ellen, it's, it's the fact that we are not going in focusing on the deficit or the dysfunction, almost knowing that it's there, but focusing on building all the other stuff around it.

So that that weakness becomes irrelevant.

[00:15:36] Ellen:
Absolutely. And it's such an exciting field to work in I think. Certainly from my experience and, and for me, I'm using the same principles and practices, but really with a different population of people, I suppose, largely. So for me, that is essentially in workplaces and organizations.

So at an individual level, it's coaching one-on-one with leaders and essentially, um, you know, people who are already high performers in their world, in their occupations, perhaps even in their lives. But of course they will struggle as well. So we can be a high performer that same sort of paradox path or seeming paradox, not an actual paradox, but a seeming paradox of performing really well, being a high functioning individual, but also struggling because we all do.

And often in my work, both again at an individual level or at an organization, so using it a systems level around organizational development, organizational change, culture change. Just introducing this idea of, instead of focusing on, what's not working, what's broken where, and it's where our brains go automatically.

Isn't it we'll come to that in a moment but looking at what's working. You know, for an organization or for a workplace, particularly as we've gone through what we've gone through in so many people I've worked so incredibly hard to change operations, to have to adapt to a really shifting, moving, faced in requirements and regulations and the challenges of a pandemic that's when they actually take the time to celebrate what's working when they actually take the time to reflect on the achievements, the accomplishments that they've been able to make over this period, instead of always looking to. What the next problem is what the next challenge is, what hasn't worked in terms of an effort or a strategy.

Uh, similarly with people, one of the conversations that I so often have in workplaces with leaders is, you know, there might be a team member that they working with who is struggling, whether that's struggling in terms of their morale, engagement, productivity, performance, or struggling in terms of their mental health and wellbeing.

And by the nature of our brains, we get to drawn to that problem that challenge that consumes our attention. It consumes our resources at every level. And we do it at the neglect then of that bigger picture, the things that are actually working. So giving people and a plus that obviously people need support.

They need encouragement, they need help, but it's finding that balance, isn't it? Between addressing that, where it needs to be addressed, but also making sure that we haven't neglected the fact that there's some high-performers in our team. There's some people who we never hear from because everything's going well all the time that there are incredible successes and achievements and things to celebrate. And for us as human beings, it's about finding a bit of that emotionally equilibrium between the things that challenge us that we struggle with, but also making sure that we're getting the balance because our brain doesn't always help us in that regard, does it?

[00:18:43] Marie:
No. And I think you're right, that there it's about what we choose to focus on.

And it's about having an investigation into what is working. So whether you are a system or you're an individual having a line of inquiry that says, well, what's working for us and how do we grow that? And as you said, our brains are not necessarily yet why or that way. So our natural tendency is to focus on the issues, risks, and problems.

And even from an evolutionary perspective, that's served us well. It served us well to be constantly scanning for things that were threats to our survival. And so, you know, whilst many things have changed and we are no longer back in caveman times, our brains are still wired that way. And if we were a computer, we'd probably need to update our operating system because you know, we're going around and we're scanning constantly, which means that our focus is what is

on what's wrong rather than what's strong and we call that tendency a negativity bias. That bias that we have to look for those things that ensure our survival, but that is actually very counter to thriving. You know, when we're going around all the time, looking at that. That is one of the sort of things that we thought we would sit a challenge for our listeners around because we know that despite the fact that our brains are wired, that way we can change that we can actually rewire our brain to begin to look at what's working well.

And that's probably something that you've done work on as well Ellen. I've mentioned over the years for yourself and for your clients.

[00:20:19] Ellen:
Yeah, it is. It's something that, I mean, it's a day-to-day proposition for us each as individuals. And, you know, for all of our listeners who were kind of taking this on board, and as we set you up with a little task for you to practice, perhaps over the coming week until we're together, again, just know that even those of us who are well-trained and well-versed and talk about these topics every day. This challenge of making sure that we're actually staying. So it is, there's a mindfulness component to this, isn't there, of actually just having that attention to, how am I thinking? What are the thoughts going through my head? Am I focusing only on the things that I am struggling with, the things that are going wrong and not the things that are going, making us strong, is that how I say it?

[00:21:04] Marie:
I think it's such a lovely phrase.

[00:21:07] Ellen:
And that, you know, we do it is practice. It's a habit. It's a thinking habit that, you know, our brain is wired in a certain way. And then I guess over a lifetime, we have no doubt reinforce that thinking habits. So to try and change it and to find that balance between the wrong and the strong, still a daily exercise. I know it is for me anyway.

[00:21:30] Marie:
A daily work in progress, isn't it?

[00:21:31] Ellen:
A daily work in progress.

[00:21:33] Marie:
This is one of the first things that I will often give to people this, this practice, you know, to say, well, how do we move away from that negativity bias? Because as I say, what we focus on grows. And so if we're going around focusing on all of those things that aren't working.

So what we know, one of the, sort of most foundational interventions and positive psychology is the, what went well activity. And so are we ready to share that with our listeners now, do you think?

[00:21:59] Ellen:
I think that's a good idea, yes.

[00:22:01] Marie:
We're going to set a quest for you every time we come together. So get your pen and paper ready, or your first quest is about to be unfolded and revealed.

And look, this might sound really simple and basic. And in fact it is, but do not be fooled by simplicity because this is one of the most researched little strategies and interventions in positive psychology. And it has been found to be as effective as antidepressants even six months after doing this. So this activity that we're going to set for you for your quest for this week is called the, what went well and why activity.

It's got some other names, three blessings it's similar to a gratitude journal, but slightly different. So it's as simple as writing down each day for the next seven to 10 days, three things that went well in your day and why they went well. And the reason we ask about why is we want you to begin to make this more active. So a gratitude journal is fine, but we tend to find that it can get a bit repetitive. Um, and that this is a bit more proactive. You have to actually think about the particular things that happened in this day and why they went well. And so we're retraining our brains to focus on the good things.

So that kind of painting for goals, looking for things that stood out, but also why, like what did we do to help those things go well, perhaps what strengths did we use? Who did we reach out to what we say yes to? So that over time we can modify what we're doing so that things, you know, w we're leaning into those things that work for us more often.

So three things that went well and why there's actually a great little app that you can use as well. I'm sure there are others, but one of the easy ones that is available, both on apple and on Android is called Delightful. Delightful gratitude journal I think it's just a very simple, free little app. The great thing about it is it will give you a reminder at the end of every day and you can write in your three things, it gives you three spots to write them. It gives you a little kind of quote for the day, because I don't know about you Ellen but one of the things that happens for me at the end of the day is either I'll forget, or I'll sort of just think, ugh, you know, I'm too tired to do that now.

So that makes it a bit easier at the Delightful app.

[00:24:18] Ellen:
We also have that recency effect thing. Don't be Marie of only being able to remember the things that happened like in the last hour or so, because even this morning was too long ago.

[00:24:26] Marie:
It does.

[00:24:26] Ellen:
So good to be able to do those things in real time. So it probably reinforces that, you know, if you're actually doing it in the moment, I know one of the things that I struggled with in trying to use a gratitude journal in the past is that repetitive nature nature.

It does become a bit of an obligation and I'm not sure, I think when I learnt to start noticing and savoring those experiences in the moment as they happened, it became a lot more meaningful and a lot easier. And it, it was about, you know, getting into that habit of shining the light on the positive things over the course of the day, instead of waiting until so the end of the day to do it throughout the day.

[00:25:06] Marie:
I say, I guess, what, if we would have staged, or stick that out for people? I would say that what I notice is that we have to do this, but first and as our brain begins to get used to it, then you will notice things in the moment. So what I notice is that if we're doing this for sort of seven to 10 days, I'd say after around five days, what tends to happen is that because your brain knows it's going to be asked at the end of the day, because you've gotten into a practice of writing it down as the day unfolds.

You think, oh, that was nice. You know, my daughter just bought me a cup of tea or the sun just shone and came out while I was having my lunch or, you know, a friend popped in unexpectedly. And so we notice those things and we think all that's going on my list because, you know, we're we're getting into a practice.

So typically I would say that, you know, as you start doing this, you'll notice those moments and that's when, as you say, then you can go, oh, now my brain's getting good at this. It's starting to notice in the moment. And then we're thinking about, well, you know, what happened to make that work. So I took a lunch break outside and I was able to be really grateful for my daughter in the moment when she bought me the cup of tea.

So we know that these are the little ingredients to thriving, these little moments, or these other jolts of joy in our day but so often they just slipped by us. We're moving too fast. We forget to sort of, you know, really notice them in the moment. So the, what went well, activity will begin to train your brain to pan for gold, to look for those little moments of or jolts of joy as I, as I call them. And later when we get to our section on optimism, we'll talk about how we intentionally cultivate those more often. But for now, what we're focusing on is noticing. And the next step after that is how we generate more of them. And as I said, there's so much research about how this just is a very lifting activity to do. It's the first thing that I will get coaching clients to do when they've got low mood. But for all of us, and, you know, I think maybe Ellen, we should try it again. Cause I think, you know, we do it for a while and then with any of these things, they work for a while and then you need to try something else because our brain craves things that are novel and new and so they lose their potencies.

Maybe, I dunno for me. It's probably trying to try this again. So what do you think, when was the last time you did your, what went well and why activity?

[00:27:34] Ellen:
At that kind of conscious level sort of end of the day thing it's been awhile. I have to say again, you know, I suppose once you've got used to this as a way of being, which is what we're working towards for all of our listeners is cultivating this as a way of being a, you forget the basics,

don't you? Say we should go back to the basics. I think that's a fantastic idea. So we will alongside you, do our what went well, exercise. We'll make a little record of the things that have gone well, and I think this is something that I do use actually, or a variation of it for people in workplaces is we get to the end often, and it's not just a work.

I mean, we do, we often have to do lists at home as well, and we get to the end of the day and we have a tendency because of that negativity bias to look at all the things that we didn't manage to do over the course of the day. So we look at the list and we automatically see the gaps, the things that didn't get crossed off.

And of course we have that kind of despondent, downtrodden, maybe overwhelmed feeling as we sort add.

[00:28:36] Marie:
And stress. Stress overwhelms us.

[00:28:38] Ellen:
Well tomorrow's list, of the next day's list, but just again, a practice, another practice of tweaking your mindset, shining a light on the positives, getting used to this new way of seeing the world.

You know, it has a new lens through which we're seeing the world. And that is to actually make a note of the things that you did achieve over the course of the day. Cause we don't often nobody writes a list of things that I got done. Well, perhaps they do. They're very enlightened. Most of us don't and that may tie into this what went well as well. What were the things that, you know, maybe you managed to nail something that you didn't think you were going to get done today. And then as you say, you know, what were the contributing factors to that? What were the things that helped you along as well. So that's often a workplace task that I set people is, you know, at the end of the day, either as an individual or as a team, get together and have a chat about all the things you did manage to do today.

And it doesn't matter how small they are, because little helps.

[00:29:32] Marie:
And to celebrate, you know, to have those moments. And so we will often say to organizations and to families that when you come together as a family for dinner, or you come together for a meeting to start with around over, you know, what's gone well in your day because we so quickly fall into, oh my god, what do we have to deal with, and we just forget. I am constantly astounded when I do do this activity. I, I actually have used that Delightful app and I think what, there's only three spaces. And I, as I said, when I start, I find more and more and more things that have gone well. And I end up writing two things in each space because there are, but if, if I just didn't stop, I wouldn't have thought that there was that many things in my day.

It is definitely a mindset. And it's just easy for those things to escape. And I think, you know, with my kids, they're a bit older now as teenagers, they don't love it so much, but we went through a beautiful stage when each of them, you know, kiss them goodnight and we would do they call it www. I think they've gotten confused with the start of a website or something, www dot mum.

And so they were in a practice thing of telling me three things that went well and me telling them, and gosh, I got so much more out of them. Ellen, when we did that, then they would tell me, especially the boys, they're like rocks, you know, like to get anything out of my, my boys. Um, you've got boys as well, so you've probably know what I'm talking about.

[00:30:58] Ellen:
I do, I know the challenge.

[00:30:59] Marie:
But when you give them a little bit of a framework like that, and then I was finding about all sorts of things. So we did what went well, and then we would mix it up sometimes and we would do kings and queens of kindness, you know, what's kind of, do you see what kind of do you do? Or, you know, some other little kind of things.

And then they would start to sort of spell out things that I wouldn't get otherwise. So we do do it at the dinner table sometimes we'd forget. And oftentimes my husband does the quiz with them and they love that. But yeah, as, as a great practice, I think individually or maybe having a buddy, you know, sometimes we're in my groups, I'll get people to buddy up and text each other at the end of the day.

Tell me your three things. So maybe if you're in a relationship with someone and you don't live with them, you know, you could do that as well. It's such a beautiful way of kind of getting to know and deepen the conversation about what happened for each other I think.

[00:31:49] Ellen:
Yeah, I love that. So, I mean, it would be perhaps similar to doing it with your kids at night.

That last thing at night, you just have an accountability, buddy. Someone, I made a friend, anyone really? It doesn't matter, but somebody who's also interested in developing their skills around thriving, you know, living a more thriving life and just do the little check-in that went well, because not only will you be doing the exercise as has been set for you as your homework, podcast homework, but you are combining that with a bit of accountability, which we know is also really good for habit development and behavior change, so..

[00:32:27] Marie:
And connection

[00:32:29] Ellen:
and connection, which we're going to talk about in our next episode. So as we said, right at the beginning, each of the following weeks, that we've kind of gone a little broad here, giving you an introduction to what it is we're talking about.

The purpose of thriving, where it's come from, and this really critical piece around our attention and our mindset around the positive and not always just the challenges, but we will now go a little deeper into these little components, these elements of the beacon framework. So B we're talking about connection, which is fundamental in positive psychology.

In fact, it's just fundamental in being human really, but in the beacon context, it's a B for Belonging.

[00:33:12] Marie:
Absolutely. And I am all for anything that we can do that can be amplified by getting a two for one and three for one. And so if we can be doing our what went well and we can be holding ourselves and someone else accountable for doing it and we can be connecting and deepening our relationship, that sounds like a 3 for 1 to me.

[00:33:31] Ellen:
That is absolutely a three for one. So Marie and I will be doing that. We will hold them accountable. We are, in fact, you are all holding us accountable because we've said we're going to do it, and we're going to be talking about it in our next episode. And so, you know, yeah, we'll be putting out there literally publicly as to how we've progressed with that.

So, Marie, it's been such a fun conversation. I'm looking forward the seven more, if not beyond that, who knows what will happen beyond that. But we certainly focused on the next seven weeks of the Potential Psychology Podcast, our How to Thrive Series with myself, Ellen Jackson and yourself, Marie McLeod, for those who are listening, if you'd like to know more, we have all of the details and we will have a link to that exercise and some of the resources that sits behind it.

So some of those references and other tips, strategies

[00:34:23] Marie:
A little tip


[00:34:24] Ellen:
Yeah. All of those bits and pieces will be in the show notes for this episode. So if you go to you will get to that. If you would like to have a chat to Marie, learn more about Marie and the work that she does, her website is

So no au on the end of that, it is and you will find her on this sort of social. Uh, I was going to call it planets, their social platforms. And if you search needtoseesomeone you'll find those of course, for Potential Psychology, you'll find us. Again, just say potential psychology is probably the easiest way, but we'll have all of the links to our socials, how to contact us, our websites.

They're all in the show notes for today's episode. Marie, I'm looking forward to hearing the progress that you've made on your, what went well next week. And of course I'm excited to be sharing the next element of our, How to Thrive Series with our listeners next week.

[00:35:29] Marie:
Fantastic. I can't wait and yeah, that it's always going to be held accountable.

And so I'll have to get out my notebook or re-install my Delightful app so that I can report back on that and, uh, how it went and just as it's, you know, we need to do these things for ourselves again. And I think I'm so grateful to have the opportunity to do that. And I'm also going to be asking my kids again, even if they are teenagers, now we can all do the www dot again in my family.

Here we go.

[00:35:59] Ellen:
Not to grown up for that.

[00:36:01] Marie:
Absolutely. Excellent. Thanks so much, Ellen and I look forward to our next installment for next week, which is about Belonging.

[00:36:07] Ellen:

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Potential Psychology Podcast. The first in our, how to thrive series co-hosted with Marie McLeod.

If you enjoyed this episode, please let us know. You can rate and review the podcast in apple podcasts, or maybe let us know on our social media channels or directly by the Potential Psychology website, If you're interested in applying a more positive approach to your life, your working life or your leadership or organization, Marie offers arrange individual and corporate coaching packages and her E learning BEACON program via the website and I Ellen offer a leadership coaching, organizational development consulting services and I have the first of a series of new online masterclasses, middle lessons for leaders available via [email protected] The first master class is creating hard stops on meeting creep and zoom gloom, six strategies for reclaiming your post COVID workday and supporting your team to thrive.

You can find out more at today. We'll see you next week for episode two of our, How to Thrive Potential Psychology Podcast series. But in the meantime, go forth on your quest to thrive and take small steps to fulfill your potential.